(no subject)

[turps]

Band flesh is a hot topic again, and I've been thinking about that community for the last few days. I wasn't going to post for a few reasons, that most of my flist will have no idea what I'm going on about, that I'm very much the tiniest fish in the fandom, but mostly because it's something I don't tend to do. It's comfy sitting on my fence, I'll admit that.

The thing is though, this is the second time I've sat and watched a good friend be deeply hurt because of that comm, and there comes a time when you have to say something.

A little history to explain what helped form my opinions on anonymous communities/posts. I was around for the popslash hate post and I watched a lot of people I liked be torn to shreds, not just their stories, but them as people. I was there for the aftermath, where people stopped writing for the fandom and things weren't as shiny for a while. I'm not naive, I know the fandom wasn't/isn't all sparkly joy, but that didn't help when faced with such obvious hatred. I didn't understand why anyone would want to hate on someone like that, I still don't.

I've read a lot of posts and comments about BF and as someone who gets ridiculously intimidated at times I can see the appeal.of a place where you can chat about things without needing an attached name. Sometimes talking to anonymous strangers is just what you need, and the picspam and fic threads sound fun. So yeah, I can see the why people would like that aspect of it. But, to me the bad overshadows the good.

Copy pasting flocked posts, summarising flocked posts, bashing people because of who they are and not what they write, tearing into stories. It's crossing a line, big time. I have to think the majority of fleshers are there for the good parts of the comm, which is why I'm not defriending any that are on my flist. But I am saying here that I really dislike that community, that happens when you've had to watch someone you like and respect be hurt over and over because some people don't get that those names on a screen are actual people and no matter what people say, words do hurt. I think that kind of trash talking is cowardly and all kinds of wrong. It baffles me that some people actually think otherwise.

I don't flock much, but if you ever break a flock and share what I've said, you're gone from my friendslist. The same goes if I find out you've done that to anyone else. Nothing is truly private on the internet, but locks and filters are used for a reason, if you break those you're not someone I want to associate with.

Comments

[tara]

God, sounds like Bandom is as bitchy as Potter fandom :(

[turps33.livejournal.com]

It has its moments. Mostly I love it there, but it has its bad parts for sure.

It would be better for my nerves to just shut up and say nothing, but sometimes that's not really an option.

[pierson.livejournal.com]

Just out of curiosity, what is this band flesh?

[turps33.livejournal.com]

It's a bandom community over at journal fen.

I'm not exactly sure how it works in terms of posting because I've never been there, but all the posts and comments are done anonymously.

I'm torn because I can see the appeal of the community. It allows people to discuss personal matters or be silly or just post fic/pictures without worrying about people knowing who's doing so.

But a lot of negativity happens. LJers get hated on, stories ripped to bits. Lately flocked posts have been summarized over there and one even copy pasted, though the mods did take care of that.

It's stuff like that that makes me dislike the community. Which is a shame, because I think most people are there for fun.

[withdiamonds.livejournal.com]

I hate that these kinds of posts are even necessary, and it's the second one I've seen tonight/today. I don't even do anonymous love memes, because that sort of thing just leads to trouble, no matter how well-intentioned. And the people who aren't well-intentioned, who think it's fun to hate? Who needs 'em? I don't even want to know them.

[turps33.livejournal.com]

Yeah, me too, and I wish I didn't have to say something.

I'll never understand people who think it's fun to hate. It's such a pointless thing and never achieves anything.

[trumpeterofdoom.livejournal.com]

I have nothing else to say but WORD. Seriously. WTF is the point of hate memes when it just fucks everything up?

[turps33.livejournal.com]

I don't understand them at all. It's hating people for the sake of it, and that's inexcusable.

[digital-diva.livejournal.com]

You should post stuff like this more. It's really kind of hot. ;-)

&hearts

[turps33.livejournal.com]

Man, I'd end up with an ulcer if I did.

[digital-diva.livejournal.com]

Au contraire, my dear! You'd end up with an ulcer if you keep all this in.

People suck and should think more about how they'd feel if the shoe were on the other foot.

[turloughishere.livejournal.com]

I've really come to dislike anonymity of any sort because no matter how fun and positive it starts out it always, always, always ends up with shit talking. People will be people and people like to vent, I totally realise that, but if you talk shit about someone else you better be prepared to put your name under it or I'll lose all respect for you. ("You" as in "everyone", not "you" as in "you Terri", of course, I don't think I've ever heard you talk shit about anyone, you're really far too nice :-) *squishes you*

[turps33.livejournal.com]

People do need to vent, I know I do, but the thing is when you do that anonymously things can so easily get out of hand and people end up getting hurt.

I can see the appeal of BF and I get why people defend it, but horrible things have been said over there, and no doubt will continue to be said, and I had to say something too.

I'd rather be talking about mer people, but you know :)

[llamabitchyo.livejournal.com]

People do need to vent, but lucky people have friends they can email and not do it in such an arena. The whole anonymous nature of it sounds like it just invites people to step over the line.

[turps33.livejournal.com]

The whole anonymous nature of it sounds like it just invites people to step over the line.

Exactly.

I'm no saint and I get annoyed at things. Which is why I have you, and my band of trusted friends who know sometimes I just need to let off steam.

[phaballa.livejournal.com]

I can't say that I've never reposted flocked statements, although I didn't know they were flocked so I hope you don't defriend me :/

Anyway, that comm sounds... blech. I'm not sure why people would knowingly hurt and expose others like that. LJ and fandom maybe not always be sparkly, but it shouldn't be a police state, either. The whole inform-on-your-neighbors mentality that some people have just freaks me out. I've always been of the opinion that if someone has a problem with me or something I've done or said, they should talk to me about it, as adults do. I don't understand the appeal of posting rants about other fandomers in locked posts or something. I wish people would just talk to each other and not do this passive-aggressive bullshit, like creating communities that make fandomers feel like no where is safe :(

[turps33.livejournal.com]

I was around for all of that and know it was a mistake that spiraled very quickly, so no defriending. It's the people that maliciously repost that get me, especially when it's a repost/retelling of stuff that was posted on a very small filter.

I think the community was created with the best of intentions, and I'm sure there are good parts still, but a lot is to do with bashing of people and fic, and the thing is, yeah, people need to vent. But by doing it anonymously they're opening the door for others to jump in and it becomes increasingly vicious as people feed off the negativity in the initial post.

In an ideal world people would talk to each other, or if they can't manage that have someone they trust to vent to, someone that understands that sometimes you're cranky and hate everything in the world.

Because we should feel safe, and right now a lot of people don't.

[phaballa.livejournal.com]

I really hate that people don't feel safe. Because if you can't feel safe posting to your own journal, especially on locked posts... then the entire idea of fandom gets turned inside out. And that just sucks a LOT.

I never participate in any of those anon memes. Love memes, hate memes... even ones that aren't anon, I never participate in because there's inevitable disappointment or wank. Some things start out with the best of intentions but... they also open you (and fandom at large) up to a lot of bitterness and jealousy and resentment and bad feelings in general.

[clumsygyrl.livejournal.com]

i can totally agree with this post. i can see the appeal, but ugh. the bad outweighs the good. just no.

[turps33.livejournal.com]

Too many people have been hurt for me to see it in a good light now, there has to be a point when you say no.

[clumsygyrl.livejournal.com]

i know exactly what you mean. i've had a couple of friends shit talked over there.

and i'm pretty sure we (the bay area contingent) were called n00bs or some such for the fall out boy/great american music hall thing.

[turps33.livejournal.com]

You guys were called n00bs? Wow. That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

[clumsygyrl.livejournal.com]

someone was telling me (they lurked over at bf) that we were called n00bs for not knowing what the show was going to be like.

which is funny considering that i've been front row for many a fall out boy show and other shows and even tiny club shows. i knew what was going to happen during saturday. however, one doesn't usually think that the barricade is going to be a row of cocktail tables that aren't secured to anything.

whatever. there's no love lost between me and that comm. they can stay at their end of the pool and i'll stay at mine, but it doesn't make me think too highly of them tbh.

[crowgirl13.livejournal.com]

Bravo! I think you summerized my feelings on this topic nicely as well; I tried to pin down said feelings over on turlough's LJ, but this is far more eloquent. I'm very glad you posted this.

Hate sucks. Period.

The saddest thing is this sort of hoopla goes on in every fandom, particularly the larger fandoms. I sometimes wonder if this is a way that social groups unknowingly create pressure valves/ prune themselves? It's been a while since I've looked at theories around the growth and life cycles of communities, but this does seem like such a thing.

And you really aren't the tiniest fish in the fandom. I shall, in fact, duel with you over that title. ;)

In conclusion: Mikeyway!
And I love you, Terri. ♥

[turps33.livejournal.com]

Hate does suck and anyone that goes out of their way to make someone feel bad sucks too.

I don't tend to post many posts like this, because I always worry about rocking the boat, plus, in this case I can see the appeal of the comm. But I couldn't ignore the negative elements anymore.

Bandom has exploded in size in a relatively small time frame. While I haven't been an active participant for long, I've got people on my flist who were part of the first wave of bandom, so I've watched from the side lines as the fandom grew at an insane rate. Maybe this is some kind of pruning going on, it would make sense.

We shall be two tiny guppies together

Right back at you ♥

And Mikey should always be the conclusion!

[crowgirl13.livejournal.com]

Oh, I understand why you don't make posts like this - I tend to feel the same way about rocking the boat, or whatever. I also have a mixed crowd on my LJ, and feel very protective about bandom; posting something similar to this on my journal has the potential to open a very different can of worms. So instead I'm mooching around, commenting on everyone *else's* post on the topic. See why I say you're brave?

Rapid growth would explain a lot of this, yes.

I will happily share a guppy pond and school with you. :D

[Though the idea of three musketeer style rapier dueling is pretty amusing to me. We could have hats with enormous feathers! It would be most excellent!]

*smishes*
Mikeyway is the best conclusion.

[turps33.livejournal.com]

It's always a difficult decision deciding whether to speak up or not. It shouldn't be, but there tends to be other factors at play. Still, I'm glad I did.

Though the idea of three musketeer style rapier dueling is pretty amusing to me. We could have hats with enormous feathers! It would be most excellent!]

Like Patrick with his yellow hat of awesomeness! Though maybe a little more floppy and with a much bigger feather.

\o/

[randomling]

Terri... I don't really know what's going on with this, but I will say the following:

-The only time I've liked anon stuff is once when we did an anon sex questions post on Pop Soundboard and I asked a question that I was embarrassed about asking with my name on.

-I love you. No, really, I love you.

[turps33.livejournal.com]

I'm not down on all anonymous posting, sometimes you really can't ask/post something using your name. That I totally understand.

Thank you, honey. I'm such a wimp that I was stressing posting this, but it needed to be said.

[indicinderelly.livejournal.com]

♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥

I don't leak flocks but I like to run amok. AMOK AMOK AMOK AMOK AMOK! *bounces*

*hugs you*

♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥

[turps33.livejournal.com]

Hee, crazy girl! ♥

You make me smile.

[indicinderelly.livejournal.com]

♥


YESH! Mission accomplished!


*runs a some more mok*

[myorangecrush.livejournal.com]

I don't mind messing about on BF every now and again, saying that, I've not been there in over a month!

However, I totally agree with you FL is FL for a reason and you do not break FL.

Nor do you post people's IM conversations.

That is why although I do waste time on BF on occasion, I'd never consider myself a 'flesher'.

[turps33.livejournal.com]

I've never been there, but some parts do sound fun.

It's the negative parts that leave a bad taste in my mouth.

[wovenindelibly.livejournal.com]

i love you and respect you SO MUCH, terri! good post. <333

[turps33.livejournal.com]

Thank you.

It's something I needed to say, and I'm glad people don't seem to think I'm stirring for the sake of it.

[milosflaca.livejournal.com]

mmm I was wondering what happened since some of my f-list mates were protesting against that.

I'm not a member of any fandom, as I always have considered myself a lurker (well, perhaps maybe in STS, where I feel most comfortable), but still it deeply saddens me to see this stuff happening over and *over* again.

As you said, usernames and icons are not just usernames and icons. There's people behind those screen names who deserve respect as any other person in front of you.
It enrages me (honestly, that's why I don't like internet) that people feel encouraged to bash someone else, just because they feel so mighty and powerful, behind their keyboards.
I bet you those people wouldn't say a thing in front of the people they are bashing!. it's just cowardice (I think I got the word wrong, but I meant by it, a coward thing to do) and dishonest.

More over I can understand if you have a problem with the person in their fandom mode (because well, let's face it, some people are just not very nice when internet is concerned), but you should be at least make an effort to separate the fandom persona, from the real person.
because otherwise it's just mean.

People say things so lightly on the internet as if they words did not or would not have a effect on the people around them. it's just so incosiderate.

And man! posting flocked things to coms is just... man. I don't have words for that.

I'm sorry this happened in your fandom, but at least I hope this would serve a wake up call for all the people that are walking down that path.

[turps33.livejournal.com]

It's something that's rumbled for a while, but the filter and flock breaking have brought it to the forefront again.

but you should be at least make an effort to separate the fandom persona, from the real person.

That's it exactly. It's like, when I put fic out there I know it won't be loved by everyone, some people may even think it sucks. But thinking that is so different to thinking I suck as a person, and it astounds me that some people think it's okay to bash people as individuals.

People say things so lightly on the internet as if they words did not or would not have a effect on the people around them. it's just so incosiderate.

It's all too easy to write things at your computer and send them off into cyberspace, but they will be read, and they will come with attached emotion.

You make some excellent points, and I agree with every one.

[milosflaca.livejournal.com]

;D

I hope this goes away soon. I really do!

[arsenicjade.livejournal.com]

::lays head on your lap::

[turps33.livejournal.com]

*holds you always*

[lassieoshea.livejournal.com]

I have nothing to add except that I agree with you 100%. Also, ♥!

[turps33.livejournal.com]

It's such a sad situation.

♥