(no subject)

[turps]

It's just after 11 and we've just got back from the in-laws. Keira is two today ( and for the enablers who're trying to get me to go see Darren in London at the weekend, her party is then *g* ) so we took her gift and paid a fleeting visit as James had to go to work. Man, they're loud, especially when you had to get up early and have no coffee before you go. Don't get me wrong, they're good people but within minutes they make my head ring. Especially as last night James came home with some treats. Sour wormies and ice cold watermelon Bacardi breezers. They were gorgeous, as were the wormies. The people that sort of got a few duplicate comments last night, sorry, my fingers weren't working right for some reason ;) The pretty postman also offered to carry some boxes home from the car for me, so that was a positive against getting up so early.

I commented on a few of the what to do you really think of me memes yesterday. I'm glad I did even though I had to think a long time before doing so. The people that replied were honest but not in a mean way and made me think. I suspect most people know what their faults are but tend not to address them, I know I don't. I got an especially valid honest comment about my writing and again, that was good. It's something I knew already, that I'm an impatient writer. I write and want to post now. When really what should happen is you finish a story then let it rest a while, giving you a chance to re read at a later date and improve where needed. Doing that would add more to the finished story, maybe making it richer in a way. Yet I know that but still I'm impatient. I guess it's the next lesson I need to learn.

It's a shame more people are scared to offer crit. But I understand why they don't as you never know how people will take what you say. interlock ( my main beta ) is awesome. We clicked from the start but I knew she was great when I sent a story that I thought didn't work and she agreed. It's then I knew how good she was, because it would have been easy to sugar coat it and give suggestions but the story was bad and she told me so. Which is a long winded way of saying crit is good, as long as it's not done cruelly.

So yeah, I found that meme fascinating, but one thing I do know. I doubt I would have commented to anyone that knows me really well.

We have to go buy Corey's school uniform tonight which is cutting it really fine as he goes back on Monday. But James didn't get paid until yesterday so we had to wait. All I can say is thank goodness for 24 hour shops as it'll be 9 before we can go. He needs everything new PE kit, trousers, shoes, trainers, bag the lot. The bank balance is groaning just thinking about it, especially the shoes. Having size 3 feet when you're 8 just isn't on. Kids, they just won't stop growing :)

Comments

[digital-diva.livejournal.com]

It's a shame more people are scared to offer crit. But I understand why they don't as you never know how people will take what you say.

I think that's it right there. I have no problem offering criticism when it's with someone I know, though even then I tend to apologize. And that's really weird because when I myself write something, I *want* people to be honest and I don't want everyone just saying it's good when it's not. Ultimately you just end up making a fool of yourself thinking you're this kick-ass writer when all the while everyone is just lying to you because they don't want to step on your toes. ahahaha.

I write and want to post now.

Hee! Me too. I think that's because, for me, what I write is so few and far between that when I actually finish something, I just want to throw it out there.

[silveryscrape.livejournal.com]

Sometimes I post stuff on my website and weeks later I'm still tweaking the story. It's, like, performance art, reading my stuff. Never know which version you're gonna get.

Last night I had to physically restrain myself from adding two sentences to a story I wrote a year ago. Hee!

So, yeah. Totally understand.

[jaciesplace.livejournal.com]

It's a shame more people are scared to offer crit. But I understand why they don't as you never know how people will take what you say.

True, but some people also aren't possessing of good analytical skills or just aren't capable of putting their thoughts into words. I'm amazed by people who can write 2 pages of crit on a story. I worship the ground they walk on and the paper they write on and the pens they use (or their computer). Good honest crit is a great tool for a writer and they're fortunate to find someone willing to offer it.

I'd love to possess such skills, but I don't. I suck at it. I do well to sputter out that I liked something. But, yep, I like your writing a lot. :)

[http://users.livejournal.com/_bettina_/]

I like crit, because it makes me think about my story, what works and what doesn't. A lot of people are afraid to give it, because they never know how the writer will react. I can understand that, I do that, too. I would like to get more constructive criticism.

I didn't do that meme myself, because I wouldn't know what to say. Sometimes I feel as if I don't know the people on my friendslist good enough to say something and as geneli4 said in her journal, sometimes a "I think you're great" seems shallow and not deep enough even though it's true.

[turps33.livejournal.com]

I think crit is an important thing if you want to improve. The problem is finding someone who'll offer crit in a constructive way. I'm incredibly lucky, I know that.

I'd like more too, but at the same time you seem ungrateful for saying that. I love the comments I get, but I know there's areas I need to improve and they're never mentioned. I'm like you, I don't give crit in comments and when I do the few times I've tried to beta I end up apolagising for every negative thing I say.

It's a shame there's nowhere that offers a safe place to offer up your stories for constructive crit. The problem is though in theory a group like that would be great in practice it takes time to build a trusting relationship with people that allows crit to be given. Plus different people are always in different stages of hearing their writing faults. I know last year crit killed me, now I seek it out.

Which mean, if you ever read something of mine and think WTF, feel free to bring it up *g*

I didn't do the meme for the same reasons. Like I said I was fascinated with what other people said but I know I would have stuck to things like, I think you're great. Because that's how I feel. There's isn't a person on my flist that I don't like, some more than others but if I disliked them they wouldn't be here. And that does seem shallow but it's the truth.

[ihearthings-ii.livejournal.com]

I know what you mean. I had a lot of stuff up on ff.net, and gaby gave a lot of feedback - at first all you know, 'positive' or whatever, and then she send me an email and was like, 'this story doesn't work', and I knew it, so you know. yeah.

[turps33.livejournal.com]

It's an important lesson to learn I think, that everything you write isn't good and stories can be improved. It's also a hard one at first. The first crit I received killed me and I went into a mega huff wailing I would never write again. But obviously I did and in my mind improved.

I suspect we always know if our stories don't work but sometimes you just want to post them anyway. I know I do *g*

[ihearthings-ii.livejournal.com]

at first I didn't care. I wrote I put it on ff.net.
now I'm holding on to my stories as long as possible, because dude, so many talented people here. and you know, not fishing for compliments, but I'm not as good. so you know. intimidated.
also, the first crit I ever got was, you know, flamey. like, "ur so gay" or something.

[turps33.livejournal.com]

Good points. I find it very hard to offer crit. Even if I point out the smallest thing I want to say sorry. I suppose it does relate to writing comments as a whole. I wish I could be better at sending feedback. I try to say why I like things but sometimes I just can't put that into words and I end up with loved it comments that don't really convey how much I enjoyed a story.

And, thank you :)

[turps33.livejournal.com]

I agree this fandom is full of awesome writers and that is intimidating.

I've never been flamed, and I'd hate it if it happened. I hope you blasted them back.

[ihearthings-ii.livejournal.com]

it sure is. *trembles*. for some reason even more intimidating after meeting some of them.
also, I can't even remember man. I probably didn't cause it was lame. the one time I *really* got fucked off was because this chick plagerized me. ( one of the really, really, *really* bad stories of mine, go figure... )

[turps33.livejournal.com]

If I re-read my stories I'm more likely to delete than tweak. It's an interesting thing though, there's nothing to say you can't improve them once they're posted.

I know some people say leave them so you can see how you improve, but I don't want reminders. Some of my earlier stuff makes me cringe.

[turps33.livejournal.com]

It's funny you say that. I don't beta often at all, so when I sent Gill's story back I spent most of the time saying sorry for each comment *g*

Ultimately you just end up making a fool of yourself thinking you're this kick-ass writer when all the while everyone is just lying to you because they don't want to step on your toes

Man yes, I get that too. I often worry that people on my friends list indulge me out of obligation and that'll lead me to think I'm better than I am. Which is why honest betas help so much, when they remind you that yeah you're good but you have to strive to be better.

I'm enjoying your writing so I hope you do keep throwing it out. Did you write before and stop or is this a new thing?

[ephemera.livejournal.com]

honey, you've just made my day.

you have no idea [actually you maybe do] how scary it was to send that and how relieved I was when you didn't hate me for it!

Crit-wise, I think I say in my hitchhikers guide that I'm still waiting for the crit that makes me cry, because I figure it will be good for me when it comes. I want to improve, and part of that is me figuring out what does and doesn't work for me, and part of that's me finding out what does and doesn't work for other people. I'm very protective of my characters and I feel badly that I'm letting them down, so - want to get better. And posted doesn't mean finished-finished - it can still be tweaked and polished and so on, right?

*smooches*

you rock, hon.

[digital-diva.livejournal.com]

I've been writing all my life really. Things like poems or what I wanted to be song lyrics but I didn't write music so that never went anywhere. ;)

Nsync fic, been doing that for a year or two now, but it's always been het (and with the exception of maybe a friend or three, nobody ever read them)until I somehow got sucked into slash. Reading first and then a story or two friends again, and then somehow mustered up the courage to share with my friendslist.

I'm glad you enjoy it. I still cringe (ahahaha) but I have fun doing it and that's what matters to me most. :)

[http://users.livejournal.com/_bettina_/]

Yeah, it's hard finding a beta reader who will tell you and help you with your story. Just like you, I love and cherish all the comments I get, but sometimes I wish for more constructive criticism. I want my stories to be better and even though, I wouldn't necessarily change my story, because of constructive criticism, but it will still help me when I write an new one.

A safe place like that would be cool, but as you said, you would have to trust the people. And of course, people are different. With some people you have to be careful how you tell them and other you just say it, some will take it as a flame and some not. It's a very fine line sometimes.

Which mean, if you ever read something of mine and think WTF, feel free to bring it up *g*

The same goes the other way around, too!

some more than others but if I disliked them they wouldn't be here.

Exactly. :-)

[turps33.livejournal.com]

There was no way I'd hate you for that e-mail. In fact all it did was make me love you more. It would have been so easy to send something back saying, it's okay but why don't you try.... Which is fine but all I'd be doing is trying to fix something that really should be scrapped. My respect for you shot up that day.

It's a shame more people don't think the way you do about crit. The problem is knowing what people do think. Some people are really thin skinned about their writing, which doesn't make sense to me. How can anyone not want to get better? It might sting to read you've screwed up, but you get past that and next time you do things differently.

I suspect most of my stuff could be polished more, especially the earlier work. It's just learning how to do that polishing. I think I'm at the stage now where I can edit and make my stories better with suggestions from you. In the future I want to do that and add that little extra on top of that. Shame I don't know what that extra is yet *g*

*smooches you back*